Episode 026: Paths to Healing: When Therapy Meets Astrology
With hae lee
The spiritual path is a continuous journey of realizing deeper and deeper levels of healing within ourselves.
On this episode I speak with Reiki Healer, Author, and Graduate Student, Hae Lee about the different paths we can take to heal ourselves. In this episode, delve into the realms of therapy, astrology, and energetic sensitivity as powerful tools for unlocking and living your true purpose. Join us on a journey to break free from the hamster wheel of life and explore the profound intersections between therapeutic practices, astrological insights, and energy work.
Connect with my guest, Hae Lee:
Website: https://www.stayandvibe.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stayandvibe/
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If you're ready to know the 3 Keys to Living Your Soul's Purpose, check out my free video resource here.
Episode Transcript:
Hae Lee: I realized that this wasn't it, and I felt like I was following this roadmap that was given to me, but not, that wasn't actually mine
Cameron: welcome to the Path and Purpose Podcast, where your journey of self-discovery meets with a collective awakening of humanity. I'm your host, Dr. Cameron Martin. In this exciting time of expansion and growth, we are witnessing a profound shift in consciousness. As spiritually awakening individuals, we are called to embrace our inner wisdom intuition and the deeper knowing that we're meant for more.
As an eternal student of the universe and a spiritual leader, I have dedicated my life to supporting your journey of transformation. Through this podcast, we embark on a shared exploration where you can find inspiration, insights, and guidance from the stories of others who are walking similar paths, to see your truth reflected in their [00:01:00] experiences, and to ignite the confidence to believe in the bigger purpose that awaits you.
This podcast is here to provide inspiration, insights, and guidance so that the path to living your soul's purpose becomes less of a mystery and more of a discovery.
Join me for this episode of the podcast where we will explore the many paths to living our soul's purpose.
Cameron: On today's episode, I'm
Track 1: here with Hae Lee. Hae is a Reiki
Cameron: healer, author and graduate student in clinical psychology. Her mission is to bridge western and eastern approaches to healing. I'm super excited to share, this space
with you
Track 1: today. Hae and welcome.
hae: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Cameron.
Cameron: So we're gonna jump right in first question, what really marked the beginning of your spiritual journey, your spiritual
awakening?
hae: Yeah, I [00:02:00] think there's been a few, uh, big moments that I think about, but I think, you know, it reminds me of that my. Spiritual awakening reminds me of that Rumi quote. Um, the crack is where the light gets in. Um, it's, it's been, um, through my heartbreak and my depression where I found a stronger connection to the other side, um, to God, whoever, and whatever that may mean for you. But my most recent spiritual awakening. Um, my first spiritual awakening, I would say was after I graduated U-C-S-B-I was working, um, at a corporate tech company. I remember I got the job offer. I was super stoked because it was a high paying job, a good resume builder, um, and had all the great be benefits.
Um, but inside I was [00:03:00] empty and I felt. Depressed for a few years and I wasn't suicidal, but I remember thinking, if life is going to be like this for the rest of my life, I am not excited for it. Um, and I knew something big within me had to shift because. I think I was too young to think that way, and I felt my future was doomed if I kept living the life that I was living back then. Um, and deep inside I knew I. Um, I had this very specific life purpose that I wasn't pursuing. It's kind of hard to describe that feeling, but I knew there was something more. Um, so I started going within and started asking myself the hard questions, like, you know, like, what are my innate interests? What would I do for a living if money didn't matter? Um. [00:04:00] What truly makes me happy, does success matter more than happiness to me? And around the same time, um, the word reiki kept popping up everywhere and I started noticing patterns and, um, I also spent a lot of time alone as well, but I decided to get Reiki certified, um, because I've also been. Very, very sensitive to energy since I was young.
And um, and then the rest is history, I guess.
Cameron: So then I guess basically you're working, we could call it this, this sort of. Oh, American achievement story of, you know, go get the, the degree and
go get the job. In tech, you said?
hae: Yeah. Mm-Hmm.
Cameron: Yeah. So you were kind of running.
Okay. So you're kind of running that hamster wheel and realizing like,
yo, this is not it.
hae: Yeah. Yep. Mm-Hmm. And my dad worked for, climbed up the corporate [00:05:00] ladder, worked for the same company until he was 40. So that's kind of all I was introduced to. Um, so I kind of did the same thing and I thought I was super stoked when I first got the job. Um, but. A few months later, I realized that this wasn't it, and I felt like I was following this roadmap that was given to me, but not, that wasn't actually mine.
Cameron: Now you were saying
that you've always been, even as a kid, sort of tapped in energetically or sensitive energetically. Um, what was that like for you as a kid? I presume you kind of shut that down or put it somewhere on the side so that you could
play this sort of achievement game.
Right. But what was that like for you as a kid?
hae: Yeah. I think I also grew up in, um, a family that [00:06:00] was. Unstable. So I had to predict the future, um, to give myself the comfort and the security that I needed as a child. So I got really good at reading energy and predicting what was gonna happen next. And I also. Remember in high school, my friends used to call me psychic because I would be like, oh, that, that thing is gonna happen and it, that thing would actually happen in real life in a few weeks or a few months. And I started noticing that sometimes what I say or I, what I feel. Is actually true, but I couldn't find the tangible proof of how I knew. Um, and then because my parents fought a lot, but they didn't really explain what was happening in their marriage and their fights. Um, I always knew that, you know, if they fought a few hours before and I [00:07:00] came in from, um, I came to the house from school, like I knew there was something off, so I always had to. Carefully observe my surroundings. And then from that, I think I also, um, got really good at predicting the future.
Cameron: Hmm. You're actually having me reflect on my childhood here. I hadn't really thought of it in this way, but in terms of like, I guess I wanna call it now the
practice with the subtleties of energy.
hae: mm-Hmm.
Cameron: I know that my family, some of the members of my family listen to my podcast, so they might be listening to this episode.
So this isn't insulting, I'm just sharing. I grew up in a household that was pretty, uh, conditioned. We'll say it that way.
Uh, in passive aggressiveness, in
just not really saying,
hae: mm-Hmm
Cameron: I kind of just sweep it under the rug and. Keep moving or we don't really need to talk about it. People [00:08:00] weren't outwardly aggressive to
one another in my family, even to this day, were not.
hae: mm-Hmm.
Cameron: But there were always not, I mean not always, but there were at times these undertones of like, yo, that doesn't feel like what just came out of your mouth? Or Why aren't you speaking? And I remember as a young kid being able to essentially spot lies like nothing. And I do it today super easy. Like somebody would say something.
And yet whatever I felt in my body, I guess mostly at the heart center was like, eh, that doesn't match. I could almost feel it like this, um, like this boom, like off of me like, wait a second. Or, you know, how are you doing? Oh, I'm fine. Okay. Well, first of all, anybody who says that is never fine, but, but anyway, I could feel the underneath of that.
Being like, yeah, there's something they need to say or something they don't wanna say. And this was like my family was one of these, but at school in the [00:09:00] world, I was like super attuned to this. And I also had a, I remember as a kid having a hard time,
like understanding why people lied so much,
hae: Hmm.
Cameron: but mostly why they seemed to be lying to themselves, like not saying things.
Um, and I guess what I'm. Present two in this moment is like, actually Cameron, you were just always atta uh, you know, attuned
to the subtle energies around You You know, people were perfectly happy when they were like, yeah, she's fine, she's good, or that, that's great. I'm like, yeah, she agreed, but
she doesn't think it's
good to be like, what are you talking about?
I'm like,
hae: We're
Cameron: I just always kind of knew this.
hae: Mm-Hmm.
Cameron: Yeah. And then obviously as I got older. I think there was a period where I definitely shut that down. I'm curious if you did too. But I, or I don't know if it's really shut it down or just learned to maybe not be overwhelmed by that all the time, I guess. And [00:10:00] then after my own spiritual awakening, I
feel like I became even more sensitive,
hae: Yeah.
Cameron: not less.
Um, so I'm curious if that, if
there was sort of an evolution like that for you.
hae: Yeah, I think in high high school it's funny 'cause I used to be a very extroverted and um, kind of like life of the party. Um, and I think I shut that down then because my. My sensitivity wasn't prioritized. I, you know, kind of was seen as a weakness. Um, and I didn't really know much about it to nurture it or cultivate it. And I think because my parents got a divorce during my high school years, I was also trying to mask that, mask that pain by being overly social with my friends, going out on the weekends and having sleepover with my, with my friends and not. Going home and being out late and all that kind of stuff. And it was [00:11:00] until my first heartbreak where I really realized how sensitive I was.
Cameron: Hmm. Yeah, I think it's really interesting.
Another mirror reflecting you're doing for me here. I realized my own sensitivities, my family was moving through some stuff my parents were, when I was in high school, my. Um, coping mechanism in that time was to achieve it was to work really hard. Also, I was like hiding my sexuality and
totally in the closet. So there were lots of things that I was hiding, but for me it was about
achievement. Like be busy. I had multiple jobs when I was in high school and like three of them when I was in college. Um, I was always super busy, never at home. Either achieving or working hard with my
schoolwork or like working my ass off.
That's like what I did to sort of avoid all of
that.
hae: Yeah. I feel like that's very [00:12:00] typical because we want to keep going in order to not feel and work through the emotions and the pain. Yeah.
Cameron: But at some point you
had to.
So what was that like?
hae: Yeah, well life, you
know, it's like the tower card in tarot. It's
like sometimes life gives you no other choice but to break down completely so you can build the foundations again.
Cameron: and so was that first
time after that breakup you were saying for you.
hae: Yeah, I think I realized all my childhood wounds, I. I came up up and I started, um, studying my childhood in a way that I never did before because obviously, um, in romantic relationships, all your wounds and triggers come up. Mm-Hmm.
Cameron: Yeah. For sure. Those were moments of awakening for me too, realizing
like, [00:13:00] oh, why do I feel so abandoned? Uh, for me, wounds of abandonment, wounds of being left,
I'm not good
enough. These were like the ones that I had to work through.
hae: Mm-Hmm. And also in relationships, um, especially the ones that really. Make a huge impact in your life and sometimes not in a good way. Um, they are also mirrors of your wounding. Um, I feel that a lot of my partners or the boyfriends that I've chose in the past have had similar upbringing where family dynamic and we almost trauma bonded over that. But it was also mirrors for me to heal that within me. Um, yeah.
Cameron: Um, I actually like to explore this just a little bit 'cause I
haven't, this concept hasn't come up on the show yet. Uh, the idea of a trauma bond. So what do you think that [00:14:00] is and maybe how has that played out? Because, you know, each of us
comes to this planet with a specific mission or. Path. Right? I talk about this a lot in the episodes that we come here, we have a purpose, and along the way there are lessons for us as souls to learn.
And we are attracted to people who may have the very similar or the exact same lessons or perhaps even souls that we have somehow contracted with to teach us things. But I'm curious, um, how do you
understand what a trauma bond is?
hae: I don't know that I know the exact, like the clinical term of trauma bonding. 'cause I know it comes
Cameron: That's okay.
hae: I know, I know it comes up in
therapy. Um, but for me, trauma bonding is I. When you feel closer to someone, um, because you have had [00:15:00] similar experiences and hardships and pain or wounds, and you almost feel like this, um, feeling of, oh, this person gets me because no one, no one else understands me.
And it's, um, I know in the clinical terms it's not the healthiest type of attachment, but it does happen.
Cameron: I forgot I'm speaking to a future clinical psychologist. I was like, give me the definition four.
hae: I actually haven't learned that yet,
Cameron: Uh,
hae: but I think it's one of those
terms that get thrown around, like love bombing, you know, trauma bonding, you know, when it comes to couples therapy.
Cameron: Yeah. And ultimately, if we think about even within the spiritual context or inside of spiritual communities, you will hear this too. And ultimately, right, it comes down to this principle that we
attract that which we are
right? We attract the vibration that we are. [00:16:00] And so if people are showing up in your life.
And your relationship is very codependent or is extremely based
upon, you know. A trauma or a past understanding. Yeah. And really those people are in your life. Everyone is. But those people for
sure to mirror that for you. Right. So for people listening are like, what is it about my mom? Or what is it about?
That's a specific type of relationship. But yeah, my mom or my boyfriend or my friend or the coworker of mine that I just. I feel close to, but it's
toxic. It's like not helpful. Um, you know, for those of you that maybe feel in that, those kind of webs realizing that maybe you've actually bonded in the past over a trauma or another lower vibration that you
may or may not want to still
have,
hae: Mm-Hmm. Um, and what you just said reminded me, I actually took a. Break [00:17:00] from dating for, um, almost a year because I realized that I wasn't attracting the type of people that I can see. As my life partners. And then I got deep and I was like, what are, like, what am I bringing to the table that I want that, like how I'm not attracting the type of people that I, um, see myself with.
So I took that as a sign to really work on myself and, um. A download came through where I was like, I think I need to take a break from dating, um, and kind of reassess what it is that I want in a partnership.
Cameron: Hmm. Maybe this is the next step. Maybe it isn't, but I'm curious where Reiki then came into your story was this kind of after this
period of darkness and kind of like
hae: Yeah.
Cameron: depression and starting to see your [00:18:00] patterns, that reiki
was one of the things you found or found you? I'm not sure how you
wanna say it.
hae: so it was definitely after my depression and I got certified. Um, and I. Was, I still was working in my corporate job. Um, 'cause I didn't know that I was going to be a Reiki healer one day. It was something that I got certified in because I was very interested in energy and I knew that I wanted to work in the wellness and health and uh, field, but I didn't know that it was going to be. Reiki specifically, but I know that, um, I had an interest in it, so I would invite my coworkers and my friends after work, um, and I would do reiki on them for about 30 minutes. And a lot of my friends and my coworkers cried in front of me. And then I [00:19:00] thought, Hmm, there's something there. And that planted a seed. And then I went to a wellness retreat. I got invited by a friend's boss actually, and I. The person had me, um, we were doing an exercise, a group exercise, and we were paired up and we were do, um, uh, placing our hands on our partners. And, um, these people came up to me after their exercise and they were like, oh, I think you have something, um, you should explore it.
And that planted a seed. And then I just got more and more curious about it. And I think. I started doing it with friends and family, and then I, one of my friend's friend also asked me for a session and then the, it was a kind of like a snowball effect. And, um, it, and then when other people that I didn't know started asking me for a session, I was like, oh, like maybe I can't quit my job and do this, but [00:20:00] I never planned this to be my calling.
So I truly believe that it called me.
Cameron: Hmm. I'm curious along the way, um, did you have to move
through like imposter syndrome?
hae: percent. Yeah. And I think I still go through that sometimes. And even as a therapist, right? Like we. We go through school for, uh, two years and we do 3000 hours before we get our, uh, number and even therapists have imposter syndrome. And I think it's totally normal to feel that way. Um, and I've thought, you know, had the thought of like, who am I to heal others?
Like who am I to give someone advice? Um, but if I really think about it, there's nothing like. There's nothing else that I would rather be doing, and I truly believe that this is a life [00:21:00] calling. Um, and whether, and, but I'm open to having the medium and the platform change. But I think, you know, to my core, I am supposed to help people heal and make better sense of their human experience.
Cameron: I definitely want to come back and ask you about
the intersection of therapy and spirituality. Really this east, west, we, I introduced you that way, so we're gonna go there. But there was a lot
that you. Shared that resonated with me, when I had my first astrology reading, and that person told me that I would be sharing this with the world.
I was like, yeah, okay. Because I was in a PhD program, I'm tracked to become like
a superintendent or like a school founder or something. Talk about the achievement track. I was pretty much in this 3D,
you know. Success realm. [00:22:00] And then this astrology thing just
kind of popped into my consciousness and it was dramatic.
Um, and what I mean by that is like powerful. Um, and it was so moving for me. And then it, I was just
insatiable my appetite. Pick up that book, watch that thing, read this, whatever. And then. It just kept sort of showing up in my life. And then I was doing readings for
people and I'm like, I don't know how the hell I even know all this, but I do.
And then kind of, you were talking about the hands and people
telling you things. People would reflect back to me, um, how powerful the experience was, or they would be emotional or the, the session would be very healing because. While I do, I mean, astrology I think has so many uses. For
me it's always been deeply psychological and about soul evolution and about understanding and dealing with trauma and about, um, more of the personal growth [00:23:00] development.
Type work. Now for any astrologers that are listening, this is because my son is in my eighth house. So I'm an eighth house astrologer. This is all the deep psychological stuff is what I'm really interested in. Um, and it gave me this platform, I guess, but I, if you had asked me back in two, if you had told me, first of all, in 2019 that I was going to do this as part of my work in the world, I would've laughed.
And if you would've told me back then. Even in 2020 that I was
going to write my doctoral dissertation about astrology and self
discovery, I would've laughed. And yet that's exactly what happened. And so, um. But it provides me this beautiful platform of teaching and psychology and spirituality all in the name of really helping support people and understanding their purpose and why they're here.
And so anyway, a lot of resonance. And I guess the lesson for [00:24:00] listeners would be, yo, sometimes you're just being. It's one step at a time. You're just being sort of guided to
see what is this, what is this? Okay. Okay. And who knows where that's gonna end up. I think when we live in the paradigm of I have to achieve,
I have to get to this, I have to,
hae: The linear path.
Cameron: um, the linear path.
Yeah. My story has not been linear and pretty much
ever since I said yes to that, my life has not been linear at all. I'm curious about this connection
between clinical psychology and spirituality.
And I'll give you a little bit of my context. Um, personally, I think that. Any tool that really resonates for you in terms of your own spiritual discovery or your own personal discovery, if, even if you don't want to call it spiritual, is super valuable. For some people, things
like traditional or clinical therapy is really important and can be very beneficial, but I know for some of my clients that [00:25:00] they don't have great success there and that's perfectly fine.
Um. But I'm really curious about, for you, why clinical psychology? By the way, I probably would've studied that too if I, I'm not going for any more
degrees, but like deeply psychological over here. But why that? Especially since this whole reiki thing has called you, which is very eastern, um, and is about energy and really, you know, the clinical
psychology route.
hae: Yeah.
Cameron: Isn't that necessarily. So how are you, so why, number one, and then how are you seeing this merging? Um, in my opinion, what I see is, is the unification of the clinical practice and spirituality. Science and spirituality. Not even just in psychology, although it's a beautiful, um, playground for it. But I think as we shift consciousness on this planet, the merging of our understandings of science.[00:26:00]
Spirituality or the psyche, however you wanna understand it, is going to bring us to great new levels on Earth. So I'm just curious how you understand it, how you see this intersection, how you even approach, um, the practice of psychology. I know you're not a clinical psychologist
yet, but you're playing in
this world, so
hae: Yeah. Just to piggyback on what you just said. I think that there's no one size fits all when it comes to healing. So for some clients I might use reiki. Some clients I might use breathwork and imagination and um, Dreamworks. Some clients it might be just talk. So I just wanted to expand my tools and my toolbox to better equip my clients.
'cause I know that every. One is unique. Every healing journey is unique. So also I am a firm [00:27:00] believer that we have to take into account the mind, body, and spirit when it comes to healing. And I really am a nerd when it comes to psychology and the human mind. I'm fascinated by it. So I just had a need. I wanted. To understand the human brain and the human mind more in, um, in order to better serve my clients. And then really what drew me to clinical psychology was that it, I decided to go back to school. I applied in end of 2020 and I went through a. Deep, dark Night of the soul in 2020. Like a lot of people, um, and I. Felt like there was a missing piece in my practice. Um, because I was seeing so many clients. That's actually the year my business really, really took off 'cause everyone was at [00:28:00] home and, um, we were all collectively healing. I was seeing clients who were suicidal for Reiki, and I didn't feel like I, I mean, they didn't come to me. Uh, they knew that I was a Reiki healer and then not a therapist at that point. But I felt like I just needed more knowledge about the human mind. Um, and they're just missing, you know, I had a missing puzzle that I wanted to piece together, and I think. A lot of people see Eastern modalities and Western approaches as separate like science and spirituality. Um, but I want to get to a place where they can coexist and I know that when they are, um, apply together, the effects are even more powerful.
Cameron: Yeah, totally. I mean, I see it in my own [00:29:00] practice with my clients. Um, you know, some of them have gone through traditional therapies or talk
therapy or something like that, and some have had success, others haven't. I. And they're like, well, and what was the
missing component for them was much more energetic, actually.
Right? When you spend two years talking
about your problems in every single session, well, what are you creating your problems again and again and again. And there, whoever they were working with didn't really have the tools to take them where they needed, which was much more of a consciousness shift and spirituality.
So this is not a criticism, it's actually to highlight, um. Maybe some of these differences. Um, but at the same point, like what you're saying, if somebody were to come to me with a clinical illness that I don't understand, like schizophrenia or, you know, somebody is clinically depressed and, and they might be on medications that I don't know anything about, you know, whatever.
Um. It's [00:30:00] like when they come together,
then you see a picture that's much more holistic. Um, and you know, when I think about this holistic
picture, um, the person who comes to mind is
Carl Jung. Who is cited all over my dissertation. Um, but he was known for perhaps not well known for, but he was known for astrology.
He was an astrologer and Avid wanted that his journals, his um, especially his personal journals, had a lot,
uh, of astrological information
in there actually. Yeah. Yeah. He was. Real gifted. Um, but we're talking about one of, I would call him one of the fathers of, you know, our psychological practices now. Um, but he
was, he would not work with any client clinically, um, without their birth chart because that was the map
of this person's psyche essentially.
So why would you not wanna [00:31:00] know that? Um. It could change your questioning, it could change however you approach people when we're talking about, you know, the clinical or if you're talking about talk therapy, you know your therapist gonna be really well trained and really great to get in there, ask the right questions, to poke, to prod, to get people to see certain things.
But, and I know you've got different tools, of course, I'm not a trained psychologist, but that can take an awful long time. Especially
when you're working essentially with someone's ego. 'cause you are, it's the mind versus
when you have access to a soul level thing like. An astrology chart, uh, and understanding actually this is the soul, the person's soul energetics.
Now combine those two things, the expertise and the questioning, and exploring the ego and the belief systems and traumas and that kind of thing with an understanding of the soul, the soul's expression. Um, that path, like, my [00:32:00] goodness, this is like the golden egg. And so Carl Jung knew this and his psychological archetypes.
Right that have informed all kinds of things, obviously in the clinical practice, but also, um, my goodness, most business practices, the Myers-Briggs type indicator, the MBTI, right? These are all based upon his archetypes, but his archetypes, he'll admit, I mean, I guess I can't say speak for him, but they were astrological archetypes.
They are very strong similarities, and that's not to say that. Um, you know, it's definitely not to criticize him. In fact, it's to praise him, uh, for bringing this wisdom that was ancient knowledge into the scientific clinical realm. And actually, um, I. There's actually quite a bit of evidence inside of his journals that the reason that he split with his teacher Freud, um, was [00:33:00] probably less about psychosexual theory, which I think he had his own perspectives on anyway, but actually potentially more, because Freud absolutely wanted nothing to do with astrology.
And Jung wouldn't not, he wouldn't let it
go because he understood how
powerful
it was.
hae: Yeah, I never knew that
about him.
Um, looking at people's charts
Cameron: Yeah. Super, Super, cool. And so this, it's just so interesting to have this conversation with you because in my practice, uh, with, you know, clients in astrology, it's like. Many of my clients will say to me, oh my God, that's like therapy or what we did in an hour and a half was like a year's worth of therapy.
I'm like, yes, I know, even though I'm not a
clinically trained licensed therapist. Um, but it's this, I think a lot about this merging of both worlds because when we have that, like, oh my gosh, the ability to not only heal [00:34:00] people's minds, but as you
said. And their souls, mind,
body, spirit, um, all together
in one.
hae: totally. And just echoing what you just said, like there can be multiple, um, ways. Reasons why someone might be depressed, right? It can be a chem, a chemical imbalance. It can be because they're not living on their purpose, their life purpose. Um, it can be that they are surrounded by a bunch of assholes.
You know, there's so many different reasons. Um. And I think when you have a holistic view and holistic way of going about things, you're not just prescribing medication, you're not just doing this one size, um, you know, just this one solution for every client that you see.
Cameron: Yeah, totally. And it's interesting to [00:35:00] see like the integrated perspectives on these things. So I do a lot of work energetically and with the chakras and um, you know, a lot of the work that I do, not just with astrology, but as the work of h Hypnotherapy and Dolores Canon. I know you know this. Um, and then I also teach from the law of one and the chakra system as a whole.
So anyway, I'm sitting around a table the other day. We're having a conversation. I won't say who it was, but I was having a conversation with someone and I felt, we'll go back to this this sensation from earlier in our conversation. I felt the emotion welling up in them. We got really close to a potential release, and then they didn't feel it.
A wall went up. Then, which is a protective mechanism of the ego, right? But a wall went up and then for the rest of the night they had a headache. Mm-Hmm. And of course they
were searching for a pill, a [00:36:00] Tylenol, a whatever, or water or whatever to deal with the headache. And yet I knew, no, that was the emotional energy in your
body that was not released and literally trapped somewhere in your head that feels that way.
Now I understand for. Maybe people that are more spiritually inclined or
know about the chakra system, they just understood what I said and like, oh, that makes sense. And yet others in maybe the more clinical or scientific route would be like, that doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know that
I, and yet I see that clear as day that that's what was going on.
And of course there was a chemical
component happening because of the movement of energy, whatever. But anyway, the whole point is when we come, I think when we come to integrate these two.
Be a bridge for that.
Like that's how we create a new world.
hae: Totally, and I think I actually know a lot more therapists who are open
to other. Healing modalities and a lot of my therapist friends are also [00:37:00] certified in Reiki, so I'm just really, um, excited to see what therapy will look like in 5, 10, 15 years from now on.
Cameron: Likewise. And I think a lot of those shifts
that we see have to do with shifts in consciousness on this planet. And you know, I would argue that most therapists go into it because they want to help people. And so when you see something as like, oh, this is helpful. Potentially helpful, right? Um, like I have conversations with people about astrology.
Sometimes even some people might be listening. Actually, there's a good chance if you're listening to my podcasts, you're probably open to it. But, um, I say it like, I'm not here to convince you that this is even
useful for you. Maybe it's not, but it is a tool, right? Um, and I know that it's super valuable, uh, for the people that it resonates with.
So just the same, I think so many.
I think it's great [00:38:00] to be involved for you, uh, in sort of this time psychologically where things are really shifting and
this openness to like, hey, well this tool works, or this person practice is reiki, and that kind of helps. And you know,
this, we're only getting so far here in this talk session, so Yeah.
Yeah. So you mentioned, uh, at least once, but I
think a couple times about a download. So I'm curious about what your, what does that mean for you, but also what is your connection with your higher self feel like? How do you know when you're guided, um, how do you know what it is your
higher self versus just like your ego or some trauma from the past that's coming up?
Um, because. I teach this to people, but you know, living our purpose does require that we have a relationship with our higher self, our intuition, our guidance
system, whatever you want to call it. So I'm curious for [00:39:00] you, what is that like?
hae: Mm-Hmm. Yeah, I think when I say a download, it comes to me in a form of thought. Um, but
I am not, I. Asking a question and receiving the download directly at that moment. It's more like I am in the flow state when you know whether that is meek walking in nature or me on my yoga mat, and it's just a thought that is very calm and peaceful and almost like a knowing. Um, and then I always say I feel. I know when I'm aligned with my higher self or my purpose, um, when I feel that I am swimming with the current, not against the current. Um, and I always say I am co-creating with the universe intelligence because. Of course there's [00:40:00] dreams and hopes and desires of mine, but I know that also the universe is guiding me in certain directions or shifting my head to look at this.
And you know, I say that I call them breadcrumbs, that the universe is leaving you. And I need to also slow down enough and do my practices so that I can notice those patterns, those breadcrumbs. Um. But I, if I look at my life in hindsight, there's been so many moments where in that moment where I thought was an obstacle or, um. The worst thing ever that could have ever happen to me ended up being one of the biggest blessings in disguise. And now that I have collected enough tangible proof over the [00:41:00] years, I feel that whenever I want to go towards a certain direction, but I feel blocked over and over, I. I'm better at surrendering and seeing where the life, where life takes me and I listen and I trust more fully, if that makes sense.
Cameron: Totally. And I think for the listeners too, to kind of bring it back
to, you were talking
about, well, the surrender piece, but you were talking about flowing with the universe for me. It comes back to that sensitivity piece and actually being aware of the sensitivities. Like, I know I'm supposed to say this because my crown is buzzing right now.
So somebody who's listening is supposed to hear this, but it comes back to like really recognizing the body. I know when I'm not in flow because there's tightness somewhere or everywhere. There's like
tightness in the shoulders, the neck, the chest, the stomach. It's like whatever. Even last night. I was working
[00:42:00] on a project and I was like, oh, it's nine o'clock.
I think I can do this much more. And even though in my mind I was like, should I be working on this? And my body was saying, no, like you're done. But guess what I did anyway? And the whole time I felt contraction, tightness, uh, and I was like not flowing right? But then
there are times where it's just complete ease and lightness and, um, that for sure is how I know when I'm being guided.
I mean. I was just talking to you listeners. Know I'm moving to Los Angeles in really a week and I'm very excited about it, but it's also been the like biggest flow, knowing ease. When I think about it, it's fine. Packing easy, people coming,
easy people buying my stuff easy like,
and
hae: Yeah.
Cameron: I've learned
enough in my own journey that when
those experiences happen.
It's showing you something and then when I'm trying to push against something, [00:43:00] um, not so much. I think the other piece too, I wanted to, um,
touch on that you were mentioning really has to do with our clairvoyance. So for me, if we
think about the types of gifts, like my Clair cognizance is probably the strongest, which is
a clear knowing, right?
So I trust my mind. And it's not my ego. I trust when I know things because as you were saying, thought forms would just pop right in, and
I know it's. Correct, because it's never attached to any emotion, right? It's just like, boom, there it is. And right after, maybe I'll get excited or something, but, but when my ego's trying to
figure something out, I'm, I'm thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking.
I'm, I'm acts like, um, efforting, I feel the tightness in my body. But when it's just a clear knowing, it just drops right in and boom. And it happens when I'm driving.
When I'm like waking up or just laying in [00:44:00] bed when I'm doing nothing, when I'm tight
or holding or gripping or trying, it doesn't happen.
And I do
hear things sometimes and I do see as well, but I know that my CLA cognizance is definitely the strongest. So I think for people, um. In terms of wanting to connect with your higher self and guidance, it's first, perhaps give yourself the permission to feel that's required, to feel the sensitivities within your own body.
And then however information kind of comes to you, start trusting
that and working with
it. And I think over time you can develop
hae: Yeah. Totally. I realize that I also
receive more downloads in nature and I think it has to do with sinking with the rhythm of nature and mother earth because I think we are, you know, we have, we have this monkey mind and we are always on the go [00:45:00] and sometimes we don't. We're not able to hear the messages because we're moving way too fast, and nature kind of heals my, uh, nervous system enough so that I can receive the frequency or the messages that are being communicated to me.
Cameron: Totally. So do you think you're living
your purpose?
hae: I think so. Um, I truly believe that I am supposed to help people heal and make, help people make better sense of their human experience here on Earth. Um, but like I said before, I am open to. Having the platform or the medium change, like for example, I teach reiki, now I see clients for reiki, but starting from next year, I will see clients for psychotherapy as well. Um, [00:46:00] and then I also have this movie idea, um, and I want to tell stories and it's about, it's actually sci-fi and spirituality interconnected. But um, I also want to. Tell a story whether through that's through a movie or a book, maybe I'll write another book. Um, maybe I will work with kids. I'm just open to where life takes me because if you ask me, um, in high school, uh, if you told me in high school that I was gonna be a Reiki healer, I didn't even know what Reiki was in high school.
So I know that life will
steer me in certain directions and I can't just. Hold onto this one thing because, um, there's many ways to tell your story and heal.
Cameron: and it's really about following
those breadcrumbs.
hae: Yeah.
Cameron: To presented. So the last question as we close up here, I'm
[00:47:00] curious what you think it
means to live with purpose.
hae: Um, I think it can mean many things for different people, but for me, for. It is about creating co-creating a meaningful and fulfilling life with the university intelligence. And I say co-creating because I believe that certain dreams and goals and um, are innate talents are actually. Um, and I think part of our purpose is to discover that and contribute to something greater than yourself.
Cameron: Hmm. Beautiful. And we're doing that in this episode. So for all of you
that are
listening, thanks for letting us live our
purpose.
hae: Thank you for having me, Cameron,
Cameron: for those of you who'd like to connect with Hae and [00:48:00] her work, uh, you can
find a link to contact her in the show
notes.
Thanks, Hae.
hae: you, Cameron. Bye guys.
Along my own spiritual journey and from my experience supporting people in living their soul's purpose, I've discovered that living in alignment with our purpose comes down to three things. And unfortunately, most people unknowingly ignore these three things that will actually help them live in alignment. These three things form my Soul's Purpose Framework.
If you're ready to learn how these things can support you in your spiritual journey. Check out my video resource, "The 3 Keys to Your Soul's Purpose".
In it, I share my framework for helping you identify what's the next best step. On your journey to living your purpose. You can find this free video resource on my website at yourpathandpurpose.com and I left a link to it in the show notes. A special thanks to this week's guest for sharing their journey with us. And I want to [00:49:00] thank you for listening to today's episode. My name is Dr. Cameron Martin, and it has been my honor to serve you on your journey of self-discovery. See you next time.