Season 2 – Episode 14: From Corporate Grind to Conscious Leadership: Finding Your Purpose with Spirituality and Psychology
In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Eric Russell, a Plant medicine and Microdosing Integration Coach and certified Reiki Master who helps professionals transition from traditional 9-to-5 jobs to spiritual and purpose-driven entrepreneurship.
We begin with a reading of Dr. Russell's birth chart, which sparks a fascinating discussion on the intersection of spirituality and psychology, exploring how ancient wisdom and modern science can merge to create a deeper understanding of the self.
Dr. Russell shares his personal journey from a tech career at Facebook to a spiritual awakening fueled by plant medicine. He details how these experiences were a catalyst for reconnecting with his childhood interests and ultimately led him to his true calling. The episode also explores:
The power of astrology as a psychotherapeutic tool, as believed by Carl Jung.
The profound insights and healing potential of plant medicines like ayahuasca and psilocybin.
The importance of discernment and preparation before engaging with psychedelics.
The difference between an old paradigm of leadership focused on control and a new paradigm of "leading from being" and energetic awareness.
A powerful reframe: understanding purpose as a state of being rather than a series of actions.
Join us for this captivating conversation that bridges the gap between the material world and the spiritual, providing practical insights and inspiration to help you move from your 9-5 to alignment with your soul’s purpose.
Links:
If you're ready to join a community of like-minded people that is focused on living their purpose:
Join the Soul Purpose Collective: yourpathandpurpose.com/spc
And book your astrology reading with Dr. Martin: yourpathandpurpose.com/astrologyreadings
Website: www.energybyeric.com
Instagram: @energybyeric
Episode Transcript:
Intro:
Welcome to the Path and Purpose Podcast, where we explore the journey of living and leading from your soul's purpose. I'm your host, Doctor Cameron Martin. As a spiritual coach and leader, I've dedicated my life to helping changemakers, creatives and conscious leaders align with their souls calling. In each episode, we dive deep into the stories of those who are paving the way for a more conscious and compassionate world.
My purpose is to explore the intersection of spirituality and leadership, offering you practical insights and inspiration to live and lead with authenticity. Join me as we discover how to embrace our soul gifts, overcome barriers and learn to lead from being. This podcast will inspire you to live in alignment with your soul's purpose and create a lasting impact one conversation at a time.
Cameron:
I'm here with Dr. Eric Russell. Eric holds a PhD in psychology and is a certified Reiki Master. He's a guide of plant medicine, integration and ceremony. He's also a transformational coach and professional mentor, helping everyday corporate professionals make the transition from traditional 9 to 5 to a spiritual and purpose driven entrepreneurship. I'm excited to have Eric on the show today. Eric, welcome.
Eric:
Thanks, Cam. Excited to be here.
Cameron:
Yeah, I'm excited to share this space, have this conversation with you. I don't know exactly how it happened. Actually I do. I saw an Instagram ad for you, one of your ads recently, and I clicked on it and was like, “Oh, wow, we're doing very similar work.” And I felt like quite a bit of resonance. And so I reached out and our first conversations were amazing as far as I was concerned. So I was like, yeah, it's time to have this one, but I'm excited to share this space with you.
Eric:
Yeah. Super excited. I'm so glad you reached out and I'm so glad we made, like, such a great connection already.
Cameron:
So before we go into the conversation, I actually I'm going to read a little bit from your birth charts. Have you ever had your birth chart read?
Eric:
I have, I have, by an evolutionary astrologer once did my natal chart. It was very interesting.
Cameron:
So my perspective and my audience kind of knows this, but my perspective with astrology is definitely evolutionary. And everything that I'm about is your soul's evolution, your growth, your purpose. Which, of course, I know you are too. So we're going to geek out on that topic. But before we do, just take a look at your chart, you have, first of all, I want to say you're fiercely creative. You have many planets in this house. So: Fun, pleasure, play, romance, creativity. I mean, you are a romantic type, for sure, but creativity is key for you. And in particular, you have an interest in, well, duh, psychology. You are a psychologist, right?
Eric:
Oh, yeah. Psychologist. Loved it ever since I was little to be honest.
Cameron:
Yeah. Well, this is Scorpio sun right here. And Pluto. Basically going deep, going below the surface in patterns, psychology, people's minds, the psyche, people's motivations. This is all very, innate, frankly, in who you are. And very comfortable for you. You are someone who seeks quite a bit of harmony in your relationships. Your relationships are extremely important to you. Romantic and otherwise. But partnership, whether that be in business or whether that be in a relationship or whether that just be a close friend is really important to you. You can put a lot of time and energy into relationships and a lot of your mental capacity there as well. You are someone who - and you can create quite a bit through partnership. So there's a lot of creative energy there as well, especially with the right people. You are diplomatic. Probably more so than myself. I don't really think about what I say and it comes out of my mouth, but you definitely do.
If you are thinking about how other people will respond and what sort of triggers they're going to have. So diplomacy is important. But for you, finding balance, making sure that people are kind of harmonious and happy is important, though. You're not afraid to go below the surface and to go there when you need to. I think there's just a strong depth of understanding people. And you like to sort of take care of people in that sense.
Gemini Ascendant, you are someone who talks and has many ideas. Friendly, certainly outgoing in many ways. Your ideas can change and you might even be changeable. People may see you that way. They might catch you one day, and you're a certain way. And they might catch you another day. And they're not, Or you're not the same way. So maybe you're really friendly and outgoing one day and the next. You want to be completely left alone.
But one of the strengths I would say, of your personality is that you're quite, adaptable in many ways. And most people think that you are. And you're very easy to talk to.
People have random conversations with you in the elevator, on the street or whatever, and because of all of your other signatures, they're probably spilling about their entire lives to you. Very, very easily. If you are someone who has a strong sense of self and you are very nurturing, in many ways, your biggest lessons in life actually have to do with your voice, and they have to do with teaching.
And you are someone who has had many experiences in past lives on stage. I can say it this way. On stage or in the spotlight. There is a charisma about you in the way in which you communicate. But in this life, there's so much wisdom that you have bringing forth that you're meant to share it with the collective.
You're meant to teach many, many people with what it is that you have. And it's not so much about Eric being in the spotlight, although you will be, it's more about you being of service, to humanity and to others at large with the wisdom that you have. And I'm speaking about philosophies here and systems of thought and belief systems and helping people really shift that.
Your work on this planet is definitely, I mean, it's your Midheaven ruled by Pisces. So your work is definitely of a spiritual variety of a subconscious variety, helping people to tap into more of their intuitive, internal self and yeah, I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. So how do we do?
Eric:
I felt like I was a little red. That was very, very accurate. I'm blown away. But very similar to the natal chart reading I had. She basically the woman who read me basically described that I am very approachable. I am like, I have this, like, balance between like the, the Scorpio, Scorpio nature, but also the, the Libra, all of the Libra kind of balanced, harmonious energy that's around me.
And I kind of bring that into my everyday interactions with people. I tend to say things that people know. It sounds like I used to gravitate towards pleasing people a lot because I wanted that harmonious interaction with people. But I've been learning to not consider it like people pleasing, but just simply like maintaining the balance in the harmony in the interaction itself. And that I've always done that throughout my entire life. And I find that that's very spot on in terms of just my kind of surface level interactions with people.
Cameron:
Something else just kind of came to me as I was looking at the chart and as you were speaking before we got on and hit record, I was making comments about your social media feed, which you all can find the link to in the show description, but I was commenting about the esthetics and how important the settings are to you and looking at your chart, they are. You have many planets in Libra in the fifth house. So in terms of aesthetics and beauty, you're very creative, but you're very aware of aesthetics and the way that things look and there is a harmony in that.
And if any of you go to his account, you will see exactly what I'm talking about. That comes through very naturally, very strongly, actually, for you.
Kind of interesting because I haven't had a conversation on the show yet about the power of astrology as a psychotherapeutic tool, which essentially it is, and it's essentially the way that I do it. Now, I'm not a therapist. I am an astrologer. And a deeply intuitive one of that. So I'm doing very similar work, but not licensed in that way. But what a lot of people don't realize, many of my listeners probably do now, as they're starting to hear these episodes, is that the birth chart is an extremely powerful tool for understanding who we are or why we're here, yes, but also and there are things, by the way, I can see in your chart that I wouldn't necessarily say to an audience because it's intimate and it's important, but, and it's vulnerable. Everybody's chart has patterns, limiting beliefs, or patterns of limiting beliefs, patterns of behavior, all these kinds of things that can be exceptionally powerful if a therapist knows what to do with that.
And, actually, Carl Jung was not well known for this, but in certain circles, he was. I've read through his journals because it was part of my dissertation work. He was an avid psychologist. He was an avid astrologer. And there was much to suggest that the split between him and Freud had much less to do with psychosexual theory and had much more to do with astrology and the fact that Freud was like No. And Jung knew and would never see a client without their chart.
Eric:
Very interesting. I also feel like the chart, our chart or natal chart really describes how we go about the world. Maybe on the subconscious level. And I mean, Jung is all about like, the collective unconscious or like the subconscious, and it's just like, it's kind of cool that you made that comparison between, like him and like astrology and like how he is like an astrologer.
Because I do feel like when we read someone's chart or understand ourselves through astrology, we may not be aware of all of those things that may describe us, that we do all the time. But then astrology gives us that, that window into understanding, like ourselves and at the, like, unconscious level.
Cameron:
Yeah, absolutely. And it can be an exceptionally powerful tool for understanding the dynamics between people, which is one of the ways in which I use it with my clients. I won't say too much, but I did look at our dynamics together. So I did a Synastry chart, a composite chart, actually, for the two of us. And I was like, whoa, there's lots of opportunity for professional expansion, professional growth. And I was like, “There's probably some work that him and I have to do together” and we're doing this now. So that's step one, of course. But I was like, wow, this is really interesting. And the power of that is quite similar in the sense that or similar. But it's an extension of what you just said. I have an energetic signature. You have an energetic signature. When we come together and interact in that space, there is an energy that is sort of formed between the two of us in that space, and astrology can help us to understand what that is.
Hopefully that will come alive in our conversation for everybody who's listening. But let's start this episode. I'd like to ask you about yourself. So tell me about the beginning of your spiritual journey and your awakening.
Eric:
For sure. So I would say I started my spiritual journey actually, very early on, I would say I was a spiritual child, like when I was six, seven, eight years old, I was so interested in the spiritual realms, like collecting crystals, learning about auras, like wanting to go to psychic fairs with my mom because my mom was, very spiritual herself.
And she had that, you know, natural interest. And so she was also a painter. So she was an artist. So she kind of gravitated towards that realm all the time. And she noticed how I, as a little kid, was very interested in, like, everything that she was learning and doing. And my mom was even a Reiki practitioner because she did massage also.
So she was like this artist, this massage therapist, really in-tune with, like, her body and, and holistic practices. And so I was just naturally very interested in all of that stuff. And so I think my mom was one of the important pieces in my life that allowed me to embrace spirituality and mysticism and the best way when I was, when I was little.
But I think once I went into grade school and middle school, high school, college, I lived in, conservative Texas, like most of my life, most of my upbringing. And so a lot of it was very conservative, Christian. And so a lot of people didn't, weren't really that receptive of New Age philosophy, where I was especially like going in middle school, like, I can't really like I didn't feel comfortable talking.
Cameron:
Like you didn't bring your backpack of crystals to school?
Eric:
Right. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So I had to be a little bit more guarded and, and not kind of bring up all of that stuff, all the time for, like, fear of, you know, getting made fun of or whatever it may be, but, but going into grade school and college, I still had this very natural inclination towards learning about psychology and the human mind, as you like, referred to and like my my heart always was interested in learning more about other people.
And so I think I dropped spirituality for, for kind of learning more about psychology during that period of time. And then my spiritual interest kind of went on the back burner as I went into high school, college, and then ultimately went to graduate school for psychology. And I was very interested in, going into, a career where I could help people and better understand themselves.
And so a career in counseling or clinical psychology was very available to me. But I think because I was in a program at the time that was very research oriented, my mentors kind of pushed me down the path of doing research in psychology, instead of going down the path of doing clinical or counseling work. Because I was still interested in doing research, I was still very fascinated with all the experiments people would or the studies people would conduct and psychology that still interested me.
So I went ahead and went down that path and it came to like midway through graduate school, I had a choice of either going down the path of becoming a professor in psychology and doing a lot of teaching, or going into industry and working for, like any sort of company looking for research support on their on their teams.
At that point, I had a lot of student debt. I had just a lot of anxiety about where my life would ultimately end up if I did choose the professor route as that, you know, route is actually very not only competitive, but there's only so many of those positions and so many like cities around, around the United States or in the world.
So I went ahead and at that time, the industry sector was blossoming for researchers. And so I decided to go into the world of user experience research and use that career to get a good salary so I could pay off my student loans and, like, feel financially secure and stable, but also move to a place where I'd always wanted to live, which was California.
I was able to move out of Texas and head over to California to work at Facebook, which was, probably the biggest social media company or still is at the time. And so I worked in industry at the tech companies for a good amount of time, and I guess it was good for a while.
But after working there for maybe like, like 3 or 4 years in, in the tech sector, I just kind of questioned myself and wanted and just wanted to know, like where, where I was headed, like, where is this even taking me? I don't feel that much of a passion for my work anymore. Just because it's so it just felt so removed or divorced from my original intentions, which was to help people, and better and help people better understand themselves.
During that time, it was right around the period of, we went into the pandemic and to 2020. That's where I had my more or less my spiritual reawakening, where all of like my interests from my childhood came back and kind of informed, like what I feel like I should be going like, what I should be doing or how I should be, you know, charting the next few years of my life.
And through that process, I started learning that, you know what? Like, I feel like I need to relearn, you know, more more around, like, spirituality and how it fulfills me and how it can have a tie to my interest in psychology. And so that's what led me to, pursuing coaching and pursuing the healing arts.
Also at that time, my spiritual awakening was catalyzed by my use of plant medicine, ayahuasca. Psilocybin, MDMA, like these, these medicines allowed me to reconnect to who I really was, the part of myself that I had pushed down for so long. And in hopes of, you know, feeling more stable or more secure or just, like, simply pleasing other people, as that was kind of like I've been a pattern for me for years is like this kind of people pleasing, energy where I wanted to constantly, you know, my mentors would say, you should do this. And I'd be like, okay, let's do it.
And so I was constantly seeking that kind of external validation from others, and it kind of, kind of, diverted my path too much to the realm where I was just working in a job that I just didn't really care for anymore. And that's what really pushed me into exploring, coaching and the healing arts and how I can create a new career for myself outside of tech and outside of the corporate world.
Because I know for a fact that that's not where I'm meant to be. And so that's kind of like my story of how my spiritual awakening kind of caused all of this to happen.
Cameron:
Thank you. Yeah. We're going to go back to several points here, in the conversation that you just mentioned. So first, I'm kind of laughing at myself, but are you responsible in any way, shape or form for influencing the like buttons on social media?
Eric:
Oh, I wish no, no, no, but like, buttons were there for a long time and for a good a while before I started at Facebook, but I was there when they brought on the reactions like the angry that the the haha face and all that stuff, which is very interesting.
Cameron:
I'm kind of curious and you don't have to go into details unless you want to, but your experience working with tech from a psychological perspective, was it more about the manipulation of human psychology that you were kind of working with? Rather than obviously you described wanting to serve and help people, but it seems like the potential could have been that actually you were using what you understood and learned almost against people or in a sense, to keep them on the platforms longer. So I'm curious what you may want to share about that.
Eric:
Yeah, I mean, that's a very interesting question because I, the, the team, they actually put me on, on Facebook because I had a huge interest in, kind of the mission driven nature behind Facebook, Facebook, like when it first started.
I'm not so, like, aligned with it now, of course, but when they first got started when they really pushed all of the conversations on Facebook where a lot of people from across the world could have these, these group conversations with one another. They put me on a team where I was researching the nature of, like, how people were having these interactions with one another, like how strangers would actually, eventually have conversations with one another over common threads.
And so I would study the nature of those interactions. And the purpose of that was to understand, like, how can we create more harmonious interactions between the people that don't know each other? And there was quite a problem around that at the time because of the elections and all of the kind of polarization that was happening on Facebook.
And so a lot of it was trying to mitigate a lot of the hateful, racist, and just like polarizing, polarizing comments that would be exchanged back and forth on the platform. And so part of my job was to understand not only how to mitigate a lot of those interactions and comments, but how can we create more engaging and positive interactions on Facebook that, that we saw here and there over time.
So that was like part of my job when I was on Facebook
Cameron:
And this was circa, 2019 ish?
Eric:
This was circa 2017 to 2019 ish.
Cameron:
Okay. Now what I hear, as you say, is, oh, censorship. But of course, you know of whoever, but there's a lot of resonance in what you're sharing there as far as misalignment in my own story, which my listeners do know, but I was a high school teacher.
I was prepared for a career in school leadership. So I was thinking about becoming a principal. I was thinking about becoming a superintendent. This is like where my trajectory was going, but in a similar way, I recognized in myself a disconnection between what my dream was and what I really wanted to do, which was to support learning and teaching.
And, you know, the emancipation that comes through having knowledge and experiencing that. Like I wanted to help students learn. But I recognized that in the environments I was working in, principals weren't doing that at all. Like, at all. Like the only things they were doing was about money and lawyers and getting sued and manipulation of other people and trying to get their own ways about things.
And I saw a deep level of control and manipulation, which of course, now I can see was my catalyst to going into my own PhD program and studying what I did. Surprise spiritual awakening in the middle. But it was all predicated. I can see from this experience that I was having that feeling really misaligned. So I was like, what my soul wants and what I know about leading and what I feel inside of my being is not what I'm seeing at all in these contexts.
So that's what actually got me to study leadership. And then obviously, we'll talk more about where that went in this conversation. But I love that you shared that piece. I am curious because then I want to step over this. There was a period of your life where I want to call you the spiritual kid. Left that for more of the perhaps scientific mind, the psychological perspective, which, of course, much of psychology is sort of, at least in the clinical sense, is pretty, scientifically focused, not necessarily spiritually focused.
But I'm curious now how you see the intersection between psychology and spirituality, and do you see an issue between, you know, the things you've learned scientifically and what you know to be true as, spiritual being? I just want to create a little bit of space here for you to maybe build that bridge, because I imagine that had to happen within yourself to do anything that you're doing now.
Eric:
Yeah. Because psychology is technically deemed by a lot of colleges, universities as science and science is not so compatible with spirituality in the eyes of a lot of people on the planet. And so, at first it was kind of this conundrum or like this kind of inner conflict where I had the spiritual interest, but I also had this, like interest in psychology.
And even when I was brought up, like, I remember bringing up to my mentors in my psychology program, like, oh, like, how can you know, spirituality intersects with psychology? And they're just like, it can't.
Cameron:
Interesting. Wow. So fundamentally, I see a connection. But it's interesting.
Eric:
Yeah. So just by those initial interactions, when I went into my psychology program and granted, this was in Texas.And so they had their own views over there, but I felt that I couldn't really combine them. I had to choose one or the other. And so that's why I kind of discarded the, the piece around the kind of piece of my soul or my interests around, like spirituality. I didn't really discard that for a more practical life.
And so I wanted to pursue that and go into college and like taking up that kind of area of study. But in my own experiences now, I just see them as so interrelated. Like, you can't really have one without the other, in my opinion. Now they're so interrelated, in fact, like the like even watching like because I, I watch tons of shows on Gaia TV and they're, they're constantly trying to bring in like psychology and science and how spirituality can better inform the way that we are learning about, you know, science and how what we understand about the world in our in our mind.
And, and it's kind of cool because like psychologists and researchers, we don't know it all. And so, but spirituality provides like a really good framework, a really good lens for helping us understand maybe things that we haven't been able to have, like show evidence for, like kind of research more to the extent that we want to research it.
So I feel like they can inform each other. And so I think through my own experiences, through my own like intuition, I feel like psychology and spirituality are like more interlinked and that we realize, yeah,
Cameron:
I'm going to jump on my soapbox here because I have a lot to say about this particular topic. And in fact, I had to address this directly in my own experience. But literally when writing my dissertation, because after I had my first astrology reading, was what sparked this experience inside of me, of understanding my consciousness at a different level. And I'm in the leadership PhD, which is psychologically focused very much, leadership is in applied psychology, you could say, because it is, and here I am in these classrooms with, you know, of military leaders and school leaders and CEOs, and I'm asking the questions of, you know, what about astrology and leaders? What about like, consciousness and leadership? And what about our spiritual connections and leadership? And I kept beating that drum. And, much to my surprise, I mean, it wasn't my surprise that I was asking these questions because I'm deeply spiritual. I've always been. But much to my surprise, I ended up writing my dissertation on the use of astrology as a tool for self-discovery.
Now, by the way, back to Carl Jung. Here he wrote his doctoral dissertation not on astrology, but about, like psychic experiences with seances. His, I don't know. Do you know this? No. No. Yeah. Like it was his cousin, I believe he studied, and she was doing, like, seances and, different psychic work. Oh, she's a medium. There it is. So he actually studied mediumship, in his. So it's a little interesting. I was totally surprised that that's what I'd write my dissertation on, but I had to come face to face with what we were just talking about, which is essentially the nature of knowledge itself.
And I was just having a conversation with my barber a little bit ago, actually, about indigenous knowledge and how indigenous cultures around the world in, you know, insert different language, different locations.
But in South America, in Mexico, in certain parts of Europe where they're many or even the natives in America who are much more connected to nature and to spirit and to, it's not a divorced separation of science. And this but actually spirituality informs much of their understanding of existence itself. And that's science and scientific knowledge, so I am not against science, I am an academic researcher. I'm a qualitative researcher. This is what I have done. And so I have spent a lot of time, energy and effort in sort of the scientific realm of observation. But the assumptions that we make about the nature of reality and the nature of existence are limited when we look only through the lens of science.
Now, I want my listeners to be surprised. But if somebody else is listening, like, wait a second, did he say science doesn't exist? No, it's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that it is an extremely valid and useful way of observing reality, understanding, making assumptions, tweaking, changing whatever. But our scientific perspective that is dominant in the West is limited because it does not take into account things that other cultures, other knowledge systems, indigenous or otherwise, see and perceive and understand.
And so it's not that science is a problem, but it is not the end all, be all of existence itself. We live in a universe that is infinite, and what we see very often is that as we go down enough and ask enough science, we start to. If we go deep enough in science, it will hit spirituality.
Many of the principles that the ancient yogis were teaching thousands of years ago. We are just starting to see support for the studies of quantum physics and many other things like this. And what we're starting to realize around our consciousness is that consciousness is everything first, and that we observe it, and we are always creating through observation. And again, this can sound like woo to someone who's in a spiritual conversation or excuse me, who is not in a spiritual conversation, but the reality is that science is starting to indicate these things for us.
And I believe that when we start to, it's not even about accepting. It's recognizing that there are other forms of knowledge on the planet, other ways in which humans make sense of reality itself. When we start to connect that with what we understand as scientific knowledge, then we're actually going to understand much, much more about the nature of our reality, who we are as beings and otherwise.
I do think it was very interesting the comment you made about the psychologists who didn't think spirituality had anything to do with psychology, because that is the wildest comment to me, because everything about our psyche is spiritual. But I think there's an important distinction there, because I think when it comes to scientific knowledge and the ways in which many people are exploring psychology or thinking about psychology is that they're thinking about the mind and themselves as psychic.
They don't even use that word maybe, but as psychic experiences. What I mean by this is that you are your thoughts, that everything running through your head is what you are as a being, and nothing could be further from the truth. And really, I think that issue that you're bringing up is, is an issue in consciousness because we are not the thoughts, we are souls, essence, consciousness that comes into our body.
And our body is formed by consciousness, and our thoughts are an experience of consciousness. But if you have meditative practice, then you understand that you can observe thoughts. And I can observe my psychic experiences. And if I'm able to observe that, then it means that I am not that my essence cannot be what I'm observing.
Science would tell you that. And so where am I going with this? But this idea, this understanding that really is when these two worlds start to collide, which they are, and they're starting to connect. Because our scientific perspectives on reality have gotten us only so far, and they don't show the full picture. And so in my dissertation, I had to essentially make this claim, but also make the claim that just because indigenous knowledge or spiritual knowledge or knowledge that comes from other forms like the stars may not seem real to you, but it's as real as anything else because it exists.
Saying that spirituality isn't real, well, it's actually quite silly to say that. Of course it is. It exists. If you are thinking astrology isn't real, that's like a completely ignorant comment. to say that astrology is not scientific, it's also slightly ignorant because it's quite scientific and the basis of astrology surprise. Everyone who studied astronomy later in the scientific method was influenced by this.
But all to say, understanding knowledge and allowing the different knowledge that exists in the world and the different systems are going to get us to a much higher state of consciousness as a human species. Anyway, there's my soapbox, but I wanted to say that about science and knowledge itself.
AD:
Hey there! If you enjoyed this astrology reading at the start of today's episode, imagine how insightful a personalized reading could be for you in my one on one astrology sessions. We dive deep into your unique birth chart to uncover your soul's blueprint and gain clarity on your soul's journey. Whether you're seeking guidance in your personal growth, exploring your soul's gifts, or wanting to understand more about your life's direction, an intuitive astrology reading with me can offer profound insights for your journey. If you're ready to discover what the stars have to say about your soul's path, head over to yourpathandpurpose.com/astrologyreadings to book your session today.
Eric:
Yeah, that is very profound. And also science is limited to what we can actually measure. And if we can't really measure it, at least not right now, then we can't really provide evidence that it, whatever that is, exists.
Cameron:
How can you measure the infinite?
Eric:
You can't.
Cameron:
So now I'm very interested, we've had a conversation previously, where you shared about your experiences in plant medicines and that I essentially heard you saw you understood you as shaman.
I know you don't like that, and you don't feel it, but there is that signature in you. Anyway, I'd like for you to, whatever you'd like to share about your experiences with plant medicines and how that is helped you understand and maybe even build this bridge right between science and that, because there are people who will say, well, wait a second, your experiences on plant medicine, that's just bullshit.
That's not scientific, that's not real, but it's part of your psychic experience of self. So anyway, I'd love for you to, to share what you'd like about your experiences with plant medicines and how you've seen them help you, help you, but also how you see, sort of the benefit in supporting others.
Eric:
Yeah. And like I said, the plant medicines were essentially the catalyst to my awakening process. They allowed me to better understand who I am at my core. They allowed me to tap into the spirituality, the mysticism that I long for. And even though, like they're completely subjective to me, my experiences, they felt so real. Like when you go into a plant medicine experience, you honestly feel like it is as real as this reality.
So like whatever you experience in the plant medicine experience, you may experience spirits. You may experience different light colored shapes or the way that the clouds are forming into different kinds of characters or whatever it may be that is very real to the participant that is experiencing the trash. And so we can't really discount their experience because they're experiencing a level of reality that we may just not be attuned to.
Cameron:
Because some would argue it's more real and that we're dead ass asleep in this 3D physical realm, and that there's actually more to our existence than.
Eric:
Yeah, exactly. And so that plant medicine essentially gave me that perspective and gave me that level of wisdom. And so that provided me like the clarity I needed to really embrace spirituality and mysticism, because if, like, I felt like if those things are like that, usually that I can't perceive are happening all the time around me, then I can go about my life and really know and have conviction that there is more to this reality than meets the eye.
And that's like the really empowering thing about embracing the mysticism and spirituality and holding it like a spiritual practice. And so that's why I loved my experiences with plant medicine and how I feel like they can be such incredible tools for healing and allowing people to gain a better perspective on their place in reality, what they can actually be doing.
As far as, you know, what they feel like their unique contribution could be to the world, what they can go into as far as their purpose or their dharma, or like what they can actually bring to the table in this life. I feel like plant medicine is like a key that can help people unlock a lot of that and, transcend a lot of the blocks that have gotten in their way of being able to do that for themselves.
Cameron:
But do you think plant medicines are appropriate for everyone?
Eric:
No. Definitely not. I would say you have to be, you have to be called, in my opinion, you have to be called to plant medicine to really get the benefits and experience, experience them in a really positive way. There are people on this planet that probably should never do plant medicine.
And those people are probably those who, who have lots of like, personality, like health issues or, who are have like various different types are taking various different types of like medication, for example, SSRI like they're very people that are in certain like medical conditions or even like certain like mental health conditions that really shouldn't be taking medicine as well as plant medicine could exacerbate it, exacerbate like those, those conditions.
And so we have to be really careful around who takes plant medicine, who's called to it and has a very, like comprehensive intake process for whoever is interested in doing plant medicine. And that's like part of the plant medicine training is to really understand, like if you're called a plant medicine, why is that? Why do you feel called to it?
And what circumstance do you want to heal or improve? If it's something that you just want to take to you, you know, spiritually bypass? In other words, just, get away or engage in escapism, then probably it's not really a good tool for you at this time, but it's really a great tool for those who are seeking inner inner healing work and wanting to better, better understand themselves.
Cameron:,
Yeah, I have clients that ask me about plant medicines and to this date I have not been drawn to it myself unless you would argue kekow. But it's not exactly. It's not a psychedelic, and that isn't to say that one day that would not be for me. In fact, I'm sure it will be, at a certain time.
And what I generally say to clients, if they're asking or they're wondering, is that one if you're being called and that's probably a good chance if you feel a calling within. But you really shouldn't be doing any plant medicines. This is my opinion, until there is a level of inner work that has been done.
And what I mean by that is, do you have awareness of your patterns and your beliefs and yourself? Are you healing yourself, or are you actively moving through or becoming aware of traumas and things like this? Because if you are and you're becoming more acquainted with your psyche, then when the barriers are not there or the veil is less so and you start to see all of that, you don't have a psychotic break because this is so dramatically different from what your experience is.
If you're holding on to a lot of trauma, a lot of fear, a lot of worry, and you're not doing internal work, I think plant medicines can certainly blow open the door for you, but that can be harmful because you don't have the tools to sort of navigate that and also to integrate yourself back into your life when you start to experience these things and all of a sudden your life feels boring or annoying or whatever, or now all of this trauma is here and your life is worse than it was before, plunged into a dark night and you have no tools, right?
So I think that's where discernment is extremely important for people to recognize, like, where are you on your journey? And I think to the point that you made, what is it that you're being called for? Like, what is this purpose for you? And, you know, can you be truly honest with yourself about having done any of the legwork prior to having an experience like this?
Eric:
And I mean, it doesn't have to be years and years of work for people to do plant medicines, but just, like, adjust enough so people are aware.
Cameron:
For me, the control freak, it might take this. It has been years and years.
Eric:
Another way of avoiding that kind of psychotic way if people are interested in plant medicine, but they're worried about having like an experience, like a psychotic break, then that's where microdosing comes in and you're able to get, get a feel for the psychedelic headspace without being completely, immersed in the experience, which could, like, alter, like people's like beliefs or senses of reality. So microdosing is a great way to get people acquainted, with, with the space without a full blown trip, which is very, advantageous for people who are looking to just, like, mitigate or lessen a lot of, like, maybe anxiety or like, like times that they're like end up here in their head microdosing psilocybin, for example, can allow people to drop into their heart and, allow them to experience like a level of, like, like light euphoria, but, embodiment at the same time.
So it's really great for people like that. So I would say microdosing is like one area, one kind of avenue. But you could also recommend microdosing for other cases as well.
Cameron:
And ultimately, you know, it kind of comes down to what it is that you're looking to experience within consciousness. Because they plant medicines, they have their own consciousness. They each teach their own lessons and bring up certain things within us. And I think being really clear about what your intent is, is key.
Eric: Yeah, intention is 50% or more of the experience for sure.
Cameron:
Yeah. And ultimately it can provide great insights to who you are in your journey and why you're here.
Speaking of the journey, I do want to build a little bridge here between you were in corporate and you're like, but this doesn't work. I know the work that you do now is supporting people who are moving to the exact same thing. And, you know, we're very much aligned. You and I work around purpose, but in particular for me, my sort of break was informed a lot around leadership and leading from being leading from our soul's essence. And so I'm curious, sort of building this bridge, how do you see that?
First of all, how do we help people to sort of understand a different perspective within themselves so that they can leave that 9 to 5 so that they can create what they want to create? Like, what lessons are you teaching?
Eric:
A great question. So it all goes back to the kind of the coaching that I facilitate, like a transformational coaching, which is all about allowing people to see what, what other options or what things are on the table for them in this life that they have naturally gravitated towards.
But they may not have full awareness of yet or like an example could be what did people gravitate towards when they were kids?
Cameron:
Buses. But I never became a bus driver.
Eric:
But it's very symbolic in nature because, for example, I gravitated towards things like animals. I was very gravitated towards animals. But that showed me that I was very I've been very like a caring, caring soul who's like, who cares about like, the wellbeing and nature of like, other things. My favorite show as a little kid was the Magic School Bus. But that was very symbolic in nature because I love mysticism and spirituality, which is the magic part
Cameron:
It that Mrs. Frizzle?
Eric:
Mrs. Frizzle yeah. Okay.
Cameron:
And then on the Magic School bus. Right.
Eric:
But the Magic School Bus was all about exploring the realm of science. And so it's like this cool combination between magic and science, which is essentially what I've been trying to embody for the last few years, is the unique combination of bringing in my expertise from psychology and science and weaving in my life, love for spirituality and seeing how they can kind of co, work in harmony together.
And so I felt like those symbols, those kinds of breadcrumbs that I've experienced throughout my childhood, kind of informs how I can embrace, like, new areas of being or new career paths.
Cameron:
Well, what you're speaking of, really, as I hear it is an embodiment of your own leadership from being and so on the show. When I talk about leading, from being, what we are ultimately talking about is connecting with our soul's essence, who we are as a unique being.
It's the signature, our soul signature. And then aligning with that in such a way that what we do in the world, naturally, is an expression of our being, is leadership. And so in your own way, of course, you're doing this and helping people to connect. So I'm curious what you would say to someone, maybe in corporate, maybe a client of yours now, but who is like, okay, I really do feel like I'm missing something and I want to connect more and lead from a more conscious place. How do I do that?
EricL:
I would say in what ways have you gone within to better understand your true essence? Because one way that I was able to do that for myself was through meditating and really understanding, being still, silencing the thoughts and the chatter and kind of the focus on the external and focus more on what do I feel inside and really getting a clear sense of like my inner being here, the emotions that come up for me and my true kind of assumptions and then that can better help inform someone who's like, oh, kind of, what should I do next? I think like a really good step is to do practices or engage in practices that allow you to go more with it.
Cameron:
Ultimately, the way that I teach centered leadership with my clients starts with presence and awareness. And that connection with the body embodiment and becoming really aware of what is happening within us.
go beyond that. With others, like, how can you do that with others? One of the teachings that I share, and I haven't talked about this on the podcast yet, is the idea of being space. So what is occurring in this space is that we exist energetically?
We are energetic beings. We're always creating energetically. We're interacting with one another. We're sharing information. We're always sharing energy, no matter what we're doing. But can you bring awareness to sort of the spaces in which you are these beings, spaces which start within ourselves, as you were describing? How much can I come in under, understand and know about myself, my psyche, my patterns of behavior, my traumas, my thought processes?
Understanding that I'm creating and I'm co-creating with the universe my own internal experience. And then how can we see the beings' spaces between myself and another? So, like you and me, in this conversation, what's present energetically between the two of us? What are we co-creating together by being present with one another? You know what energy is?
What are the thought patterns? What are the norms that happen between the two of us in conversation or in a relationship? And then to go further and recognize what are the beings' spaces that we are part of that have multiple people. So more than our groups were our groups that at work are teams that were a part of families, cities.
We might be a part of a group or a country. We might be a part of understanding that because we are energetic beings, we're always creating something and co-creating with others. So if we can bring awareness to these spaces of being that are around us all the time, then we can start to lead in a more conscious way. So this is kind of a fundamental teaching of the work that I do.
And so I'm curious also how that resonates for you and how you see leadership as an extension of being?
Eric:
I mean, one can't really lead unless you really start to understand the space in which you're, like, holding, like the energetic container. And so leaders, in my opinion, have to hold a really large energetic container.
They also have to be aware of their own space, but they also have to be aware of those who wish to understand themselves, who wish to understand them or wish to like, understand their teachings. And so it's just a matter of how can we as leaders not only be okay and understand our being space and really, feel like the sense of gratitude towards it?
But how can we bring in other people who, who are also gaining awareness of their own being spaces and using our own beings' space to help them, inform them of their own space?
Cameron:
I love that you're playing with the idea here, because this is the point, is for us to bring awareness of like, what's happening energetically because we're always creating around us.
And of course, if you're listening to the episode and if you're listening to this part here, you know, we're not talking, we're actually very much not addressing an old paradigm of leadership, of manipulation and control and trying to influence and trying to make things happen. That's an old paradigm that is dying upon this planet. But it's the conversation that you and I are having right now and playing with this idea of energetic awareness and, you know, honoring your soul and your being and expressing that and allowing that to lead, that is a very new concept, one that we desperately need on this planet.
AD: Hey there. If you're enjoying what we're diving into here on the podcast and want to go deeper, I want to invite you to check out the Soul Purpose Collective. The Soul Purpose Collective is my online community. Where minded changemakers, creatives and leaders come together to explore what it takes to align and lead from their soul’s purpose. Head over to yourpathandpurpose.com/spc for more details. We'd love to have you join us!
Cameron:
You and I do very similar work in this space of purpose and supporting people and living their purpose, connecting with their purpose. And so I'm really curious what you would like to share with the audience about living with purpose, because I talk about it as being that your purpose is ever evolving and growing, and that ultimately your purpose on this planet is to evolve.
So this can shift. The doing part of it can totally shift. But when we're connected with our being talking about being centered leadership here, we can align ourselves with our purpose. This is sort of a foundation to how I speak about this, but I'm curious for someone who's like, oh, I'm trying to figure out my purpose, or I don't know what that is, or I'm feeling a little lost in this space. What are sort of the foundational things that you like to share around purpose and living with purpose?
Eric:
Well, it's kind of just what you mentioned, the purpose is more of a being as opposed to a doing. So. I mean, you can think of purpose as like, like going out into the world and doing this and kind of living your purpose doing X, but really it's it's real purpose is about coming from a place of beingness.
So like your purpose is you. You are your purpose. Like as soon as you understand who you truly are and who you are, like inside, then you really know what your purpose is that you're living. If you're living from a place of authenticity, then you actually know what your purpose is. And so that's like my kind of I find that foundational, really understanding and teachings as purpose.
It's more of what are we connected to now? How can we like, come from a place of like heart centered authenticity? And whatever we do now in the present, we can be connected to our purpose. And so I actually did a video, about this, around this metaphor that I really enjoy. But if you think of yourself as an apple tree seedling, you have all this potential of becoming an apple tree one day.
And a lot of you, as the apple tree seeds, might think like, oh, my purpose is to bear hundreds of apples eventually becoming this apple tree. That's like my ultimate purpose. But really, if you take a step back, the higher purpose of an apple tree isn't necessarily to bear apples, it's to recycle carbon dioxide into oxygen in the planet's atmosphere.
And that's the higher purpose of all plant life. And as the apple tree seedling, you're already doing that. You're already photosynthesizing, you're already connected to that larger sense of purpose. And so I encourage, like the people I work with, to look within and understand, like if they can better understand who they truly are, then they can really be connected to their purpose and understand what they really, really who they can really be in this lifetime.
Cameron:
I actually really like that metaphor for a couple of other reasons, too, because, you know, the purpose of the tree could be to create shade for me, because I want to read a book on a sunny afternoon. But I think what's really interesting, two things there. One, that there can be this unknown or unsought about purpose, not and, and also there could be an unrealized purpose.
There is that if you don't have the right conditions in the environment, that kind of thing. But also funny , maybe I don't know if it's a paradox exactly in this metaphor is that the apple tree seedling isn't thinking any of those things because it doesn't have. Or as we know, it doesn't have the mind to do that. So it's only ever in the process of becoming. Right? I like that metaphor. You can have a whole workshop about that apple tree.
Eric:
And I completely made it up. I didn't read it anywhere. I literally was like, this actually makes sense. I'm going to use this.
Cameron:
I think there are many, many pieces to that teaching. Which really just have me reflecting in this moment too, about, you know, I haven't said this maybe quite as explicitly to my audience. So I'm going to if I really reflect on my being so much of what I've moved through in this life, my life experiences, the healing I've been moving through the last few years that have, you know, been required so that I can show up the way that I am now. So if we think about my being and then my purpose, just as an expression of that teacher.
I actually literally was born in front of a class of nursing students, which I came into this world teaching. And then the only thing I ever wanted to do as a kid was teach. And then I became a teacher. I am teaching now, but it looks different. So teacher, spiritual, lleadership, but like doing it differently. It is so deep inside my being that I think about it, I feel it, I know it, I see that we need to do it differently.
And it's hard to describe what that experience is inside of me, except for to say it's a fire. Creativity. That's definitely part of my being. Also, there's just a ton of wisdom inside of me that I've come to learn over so many years. And so the expression of my being. Looks like this at the moment. Right. Looks like this conversation that you and I are having, and in future moments
Eric:
We are embodying our purpose in this conversation.
Cameron:
Yeah. And in future moments that may look like me speaking on a stage to thousands of people. And it might look like running a workshop in Bali or in French Polynesia or whatever. I'm joking there because Eric just went to Bora Bora, so we were talking about that before we started. But I would like to close the conversation, by asking you if you believe that you are living your purpose,
Eric:
I do, I do. I feel like I've, I feel more connected to my purpose than ever before, just because I feel like I have been embracing who I am and my authentic nature than ever before.
Cameron:
I love it. Thank you very much for sharing this conversation in this space with me today. I'm sure the audience will love it just as much as I did.
And if you'd like to connect with Eric or any of his work, you can find his information in the show notes. Thank you Eric.
Eric:
Thank you, Cam, I appreciate this. This has been fun.
Outro:
A heartfelt thanks to you for tuning in to this episode. I'm Dr. Cameron Martin, and it's been an honor to support you on your path to self-discovery. As you reflect on today's conversation, remember that the journey toward living and leading from your soul's purpose is ongoing. You're never alone in it. Until next time.